Frequently asked questions
Gypsies, Travellers and unauthorised camping - examples of some of the kinds of questions we are often asked...
- Q: I don't have a problem with genuine Gypsies but these are just 'vagrants'!
- Q: Surely Travellers are breaking the law. Why don't we just evict them straight away?
- Q: Why are Travellers allowed to get away with criminal activity?
- Q: But they have broken in and damaged property - surely that IS a criminal offence and they should be evicted?
- Q: Why not?
- Q: If I parked my caravan on a picnic site you would move me on straight away! Why is there one law for us and another for them?
- Q: What about their vehicles? None of them are taxed, MoT'd or insured are they?
- Q: What is the procedure and timetable for eviction?
- Q: We think that this is an intolerable site. How long before you can evict?
- Q: You say that negotiation saves money but does it work?
- Q: Can't you stop illegal encampments occurring in the first place? Why don't you work together with the police and other local authorities so that you know when they are coming? Then you could be ready for them.
- Q: That's defeatist attitude. They have chosen to live the way they do. If we make life uncomfortable for them, they will soon get fed up and try another county or get themselves houses and jobs like the rest of us!
- Q: Why don't you put really strong defences in place to stop Travellers breaking in to sites?
- Q: Is Dorset a soft touch for Travellers?
- Q: What do Travellers cost the people of Dorset?
- Q: I don't believe that - how does Dorset's approach save that much money?
- Q: So you have a deliberate go slow policy just to save money?
- Q: What about the costs of clearing up after an encampment?
- Q: Is there any way of getting Travellers to pay for the damage they cause?
- Q: I pay out so much per year in rates and taxes but these people pay absolutely nothing!
- Q: Why aren't you demanding that the Government change the law to make it easier to move Travellers on?
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Q: I don't have a problem with genuine Gypsies but these are just 'vagrants'!
A: Few Romany Gypsies travel the roads in horse drawn caravans nowadays. If you spot a traditional barrel-top it may well be occupied by 'New Travellers' - people who have adopted the lifestyle in recent years rather than through family tradition.
Read more about I don't have a problem with genuine Gypsies but these are just 'vagrants'!
Up to the questions -
Q: Surely Travellers are breaking the law. Why don't we just evict them straight away?
A: The Government Guidelines for dealing with Unauthorised Encampments states that "Unauthorised camping is not a criminal offence and (the Government has) no plans make it so". Trespass is a civil offence, giving landowners and local authorities the right to repossess their property using the due process of law.
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Q: Why are Travellers allowed to get away with criminal activity?
A: Generally they are not. The police keep a close eye on unauthorised encampments and Travellers often complain to us about harassment. The police try to be firm and fair, and while proven wrongdoing is punished they cannot act against unproven allegations or assumptions. There is often an assumption that Travelling as a lifestyle is inextricably linked with crime but this is an unfair generalisation and it is certainly true that more criminals live in houses than in caravans.
Read more about Why are Travellers allowed to get away with criminal activity?
Up to the questions -
Q: But they have broken in and damaged property - surely that IS a criminal offence and they should be evicted?
A: No. Breaking in and damaging property are separate offences to trespass. If the police were able to attribute the damage to one or more individuals they could be prosecuted through the courts but their punishment would not be eviction of the whole encampment.
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Q: Why not?
A: Firstly, British Law only punishes the wrongdoer, not their family, friends, or the whole community. Secondly, under Human Rights legislation, punishment must be proportionate. So while a person could be fined or imprisoned for criminal damage, it would not be reasonable to impound their home, prevent their legal employment or disrupt the education of their children.
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Q: If I parked my caravan on a picnic site you would move me on straight away! Why is there one law for us and another for them?
A: There aren't two laws, we are all treated the same. However, there are differences between the two cases, the first being the way that 'ordinary' people react to authority, e.g. If a policeman tells me to move my car I tend to move right away, but I could tell him to go away and come back with the paperwork and see where that leads the discussion! Secondly, the majority of us have ordinary houses to go back to but Travellers' vehicles may be their only homes and the source of their livelihood. Legal action needs to be carefully considered, not just against issues of Human Rights and Common Humanity but also against economic and logistical problems.
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Q: What about their vehicles? None of them are taxed, MoT'd or insured are they?
A: The police run vehicle checks on new encampments and Travellers are prosecuted as and when appropriate. Many Travellers' vehicles are taxed and some are so old they are tax exempt. Most Gypsy Travellers have modern well-maintained vehicles which are used to support their business interests, so they are almost invariably taxed and MoT'd.There is an issue with some of the vehicles the New Travellers live in, as they are off the road for most of the year. The police will stop any dangerous vehicles as they move between sites, and have them removed from the highway but if an eviction is to be successful arrangements have to be made to allow them to move on.
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Q: What is the procedure and timetable for eviction?
A: We operate a balanced approach towards Travellers, as suggested by case law and government guidelines. Whenever an unauthorised encampment occurs, the Traveller Liaison Officer visits and makes an assessment of the situation. If it is in a quiet location and causing little nuisance a decision may be made to leave them in place for an agreed period, as there is no point in evicting from one site to a worse one. It is in everyone's interest to agree a leaving date with the Travellers, as they get a period of stability and we save the not inconsiderable costs of eviction.
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Q: We think that this is an intolerable site. How long before you can evict?
A: We know that judgements about nuisance and tolerability are purely subjective and that our views may not be the same but we have to work in the wider public interest. If and when we decide to take legal action there are still procedures to be followed. The Courts require public bodies like local councils (but not private landowners) to take account of considerations of common humanity, so we must carry out needs and welfare audits to discover if any allowances should be made before we proceed. We then put our case together and apply for a court date. Assuming that we are granted our Order, we then apply for a Warrant and book the Court Bailiff. It is impossible to put a time to this process but you can see that it is not an instant remedy.
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Q: You say that negotiation saves money but does it work?
A: Absolutely, although not in every case. Gypsy Travellers who tend to visit urban areas to carry out their business interests, usually only want to stay a few weeks so rushing into court is money wasted. While these Travellers are working a particular area they will try to stay in the vicinity until the work runs out, so if we evict early it tends only to be to another, equally unsatisfactory location nearby.
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Q: Can't you stop illegal encampments occurring in the first place? Why don't you work together with the police and other local authorities so that you know when they are coming? Then you could be ready for them.
A: We do work together on this and we do pass information on when we have it. Large-scale 'invasions' need special treatment and get it but most of our encampments are 20 vehicles or fewer and we do not have the resources to play cat and mouse with them. Not only that, Travellers have to be somewhere and it is no good the police chasing them from pillar to post - sooner or later they will have to park up and the complaints will begin. Unless local authorities can provide suitable stopping places, Travellers will continue to find their own.
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Q: That's defeatist attitude. They have chosen to live the way they do. If we make life uncomfortable for them, they will soon get fed up and try another county or get themselves houses and jobs like the rest of us!
A: If only it was so simple. Gypsy Travellers have been around for hundreds of years and there is no reason to suppose that they are going to disappear in the near future. New Travellers began to appear in the Sixties and are now into a third generation. Even if the law permitted a zero tolerance approach it wouldn't work if everyone operated it because you would just be shunting Travellers back and forth across borders.
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Q: Why don't you put really strong defences in place to stop Travellers breaking in to sites?
A: That's a very good question with a slightly complicated answer. It is a national problem that traditional stopping places are being protected to such an extent that Travellers are being forced into larger groups and on to more conspicuous sites. They are also more likely to seek to prolong their stay if their options for alternative sites are reduced. Also, there are considerations to be taken into account when designing protective measures. They have to be economic and they have to take account of the other uses of the site. For example, public areas and picnic sites must continue to give access to the general public but if some access is allowed there is always an opportunity for unwanted visitors to break in.
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Q: Is Dorset a soft touch for Travellers?
A: There is no evidence at all that this is the case. We have regular contact with authorities all over England and we all operate to the same Government Guidelines. It is true that some areas take legal action much more quickly than others and that urban areas are much less likely than rural areas to tolerate sites for extended periods of time. We generally seem to have fewer Travellers here than in neighbouring counties.
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Q: What do Travellers cost the people of Dorset?
A: Everything that government and local government do has a cost and whichever way we work Gypsy and Traveller Issues will cause some costs to fall upon the taxpayer. Considering how difficult it is for Travellers to access any public services, they actually cost very little in the wider scheme of things. We calculate that we save the ratepayer around £400,000 a year through our balanced approach.
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Q: I don't believe that - how does Dorset's approach save that much money?
A: Legal evictions cost money. A simple unopposed legal eviction of a small encampment will cost between one and three thousand pounds, and a large resisted removal has cost up to thirty thousand pounds in Dorset. It does get worse because if there are successful legal challenges in the High Court (as with the Weymouth case in 2001) the costs for us and the police keep climbing. These are of course one-off costs. When we or the police move one encampment we create another one, and the more frequently we evict the more encampments and evictions we have.
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Q: So you have a deliberate go slow policy just to save money?
A: Certainly not. We try to exercise a balanced approach and one of our prime considerations is nuisance to local people. If the position really is intolerable we move as fast as the law allows.
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Q: What about the costs of clearing up after an encampment?
A: These can be considerable but the press often inflate the figures by including other sums, such as defensive measures to prevent a reoccurrence, and estimated loss of revenue for nearby facilities such as car parks and leisure centres. It is also true that Traveller encampments in rural areas attract fly-tipping, much of which is clearly not attributable to the campers. Many rural sites are left spotless and there is no cost the taxpayer but typically we might spend between £200 and £500 to remove abandoned vehicles and other rubbish after an eviction. Of course some problem sites cost a great deal more. Generally speaking, there is more rubbish left after a legal eviction than a negotiated removal.
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Q: Is there any way of getting Travellers to pay for the damage they cause?
A: Under current legislation this is practically impossible. Even if evidence is gathered, it is necessary to identify the guilty persons and arrange for court proceedings. The difficulty of tracing Travellers makes such proceedings uneconomic and in the case of New Travellers who may have no property of value and very little income, there is little prospect of us recovering our costs. In certain, very specific circumstances, vehicles could be impounded but this can have the effect of making families homeless or requiring children to be taken into care. This is not proportionate in Human Rights terms and is not a course we would take lightly.
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Q: I pay out so much per year in rates and taxes but these people pay absolutely nothing!
A: This is a common misconception. They don't pay Rates on unauthorised camping sites but many people in houses get rate relief, housing benefit etc. Many Travellers are employed and pay tax under the PAYE system and of course VAT is charged on everything they, and we, buy.
Read more about I pay out so much per year in rates and taxes but these people pay absolutely nothing!
Up to the questions -
Q: Why aren't you demanding that the Government change the law to make it easier to move Travellers on?
A: The Government has said recently that it will give the police stronger powers to move Travellers quickly but only where local authorities have identified alternative sites to which Travellers can be directed.
Read more about Why aren't you demanding that the Government change the law to make it easier to move Travellers on?
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